Appalachia is Clinton Country


Barack Obama, on the verge of his own premature victory celebration, had time to visit Michigan this week -- a state where he voluntarily removed his name from the ballot for political gain in Iowa, then subsequently blocked a re-vote.  But apparently he couldn't squeeze in even one visit to the Bluegrass State in advance of its primary this Tuesday.  Not to worry, though, Obama assured the people of Kentucky from afar that he'd be back before November to win them over.

In lieu of visiting Kentucky to ask voters personally for their support, Obama has spent a fortune in television and radio ads, plus handbills, that play up his Christianity.  He's also found the time to blame a bunch of people, including FOX News and political opponents, for his impending double-digit loss there.  Arriving on the heels of a humiliating 41-point defeat in neighboring West Virginia (where he spent a few hours campaigning), it would be understandable if Obama was feeling a little down about now.


Appalachia, a region rich in battleground electoral votes, is most definitely Clinton Country.  A set of maps courtesy of Dave Leip's Atlas of U.S. Presidential Elections illustrates Hillary's overwhelming Appalachian advantage.  In case the legend is hard to read, dark blue in the top map shows counties Clinton has won (light blue is Obama). In the bottom map, pink represents Republican-won counties in the general elections of both 2000 and 2004; dark blue is for counties won by Democrats in both years; and those won by Democrats in only one of the two years are light blue.

The Democratic Party should study this data carefully.  Hillary Clinton has the same populist appeal in the region as her husband, who won more than half of these states in 1992 and 1996. Remarkably, even as the mainstream media writes her obituary, in general-election surveys Clinton still out-polls "presumptive nominee" Barack Obama in Pennsylvania and Ohio. And, based on her strong primary performances, Hillary gives the Democrats tangible hope in West Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee for the first time since 1996.

So...while Barack Obama writes off another swing state, Hillary Clinton continues to solidify her popularity with the people of Appalachia, working like a die-hard Democrat should to build the party's base, going door-to-door stumping for votes in Kentucky.

 

And the people of Kentucky, like their neighbors in West Virginia, will come out in full force this Tuesday -- ignoring all the grand displays of victory by Obama -- to tell America that they want Hillary Clinton for President.

Word from the Clinton campaign is that Kentuckians are warm and hospitable hosts.  I sure hope Barack Obama has the opportunity in his lifetime to spend a bit of time in Bluegrass Country getting to know them.



Cross posted at texasdarlin and Taylor Marsh


TexasDarlin, all rights reserved
Not affiliated with the Hillary Clinton campaign



Display:


Re: Bluegrass Blues (1.95 / 21)

It's a beautiful place, Kentucky.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:19:09 PM EST

It is: "as far as I know." eom (none / 0)


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:46:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BEAUTIFUL diary! (2.00 / 6)

Love the photos, and well researched.  Kudos!


by izarradar on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:31:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BEAUTIFUL diary! (none / 0)

I know that delegates are delegates, but to base your path to the White House on the least educated and most racist part of the country is a little humiliating.  Not all of Appalachia is uneducated or racist, but enough are that I would not start bragging about winning big there.  Typically, Republicans win there.  Enough said.

I tend to agree that proclaiming victory on Tuesday is a little premature, but just a little.

Right now, Obama has about 1900 delegates and he needs 2025 to claim victory.  On Tuesday, 103 delegates will be up for grabs and I expect Obama to get about 45 to 50--maybe a little less.

However, with 11 additional delegates, he will win a majority of the delegates who are selected by primary or caucus.  This means that the Pelosi Club will come into the Obama Camp.  Currently there are 11 unpledged delegates in the Pelosi Club.

I imagine there will be a few more SD sign on at the time.  So on Tuesday night, he should have about 1960 delegates with 65 to go for the win.

So proclaiming victory when you are close but not there is unwise.  We are not talking "Mission Accomplished" unwise, but still, I just don't like it.


by smoker1 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 07:18:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (1.71 / 14)

This really deserves a more prominent place in your diary


Mystery Man Obama
April 29, 2008 · 24 Comments

By TexasDarlin
Re-posted 4/29/08

Who is Barack Obama?  I keep coming across this question in one form or another. And I don't think it's throwing flames to ask. It's our duty to dig deep, right? After all, he could be our country's next president, leader of the free world. And, it's imperative that we Democrats nominate the most electable candidate to do battle with war hero and patriot John McCain this November.

So do we know Barack Obama? His life should be an open book, god knows Hillary's is. Why are we afraid to do the research? Will we be called racist or un-Democratic or otherwise blasphemous if we ask provocative questions? When it comes to interviewing our presidential candidates, should any query be off limits? Is Barack Obama entitled to a private past?

Where are Barack's friends, ex-lovers, roommates, and colleagues? Shouldn't we be hearing from them about now? Their stories and reports and yes, even gossip, about Barack's personal and professional life -- his jobs, hobbies, habits, religious practices, romances, philosophies, medical history, and personality traits -- are surely relevant. I've seen very few interviews with such people. There was a NY Times story not long ago in which a couple of dozen friends and peers from Barack's youth were surveyed about whether his actual drug use matched the well-known passages from his "memoir." They said he smoked a little pot, that's it. Did anyone else read that and ask: How else has Barack used his creative license?

Red Flag Questions about Barack's past that have barely been touched by the media include: dual citizenship, drug use, ties to Kenya and family relations, socialist/Marxist mentors, liberal/left-wing philosophy, religious background, State Senate of Illinois record, friendships, etc.

You can be sure that the Republicans are already salivating over the mysterious aspects of Barack's life. We'd be irresponsible to assume that these questions will remain unasked if he is our nominee.

Obviously each of these issues could comprise its own article, but here are just a few search results:

Dual Citizenship?

Many have speculated that Barack might have dual citizenship because his father was Kenyan and Barack lived in Indonesia:

Obama was born on August 4th, 1961 - before Kenya became an independent nation. However, when Kenya became independent two years later (its constitution) ... provided: any person who, having been born outside Kenya, if his father becomes...a citizen of Kenya (the child also) becomes a citizen of Kenya.. (Thus) it's quite possible that Obama acquired Kenyan Citizenship at birth.

A brief review suggests that it's possible, especially given that Obama's step-father was an Indonesian government official, that Obama might have taken Indonesian nationality. Source.

(On a related note, many bloggers have questioned whether Barack's birth certificate is available.)

Be proud, Mr Armstrong.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:16:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Troll-rating for reposting (2.00 / 4)

one of the diarist's other writings?  

Interesting.


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:28:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 7)

Ha! If you're ashamed of your own words TD, you should maybe not write them at all.


by upstate girl on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:36:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I await the diarist's retraction (2.00 / 5)

of the earlier diary and accompanying apology for rumor-mongering.  Until then, it's fair to mention.


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:42:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yo, SoCalDarlin' (1.77 / 9)

If you're troll-rating me for posting your writing, does that mean your troll-rating yourself?

For once, we are in complete agreement.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 2)

Now that you bring this up:

Obama keeps touting his "community organizing" work in Chicago.

How come we never hear from the untold thousands of people whose lives he's touched so deeply?  

Have we heard from one?


by bellarose on Sat May 17, 2008 at 06:55:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fogot the link (1.69 / 13)

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/04 29/mystery-man-obama

Be sure to read the whole thing. It's illuminating. With regard to the author, if not with regard to the purported subject.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fogot the link (1.50 / 6)

Hey Blue,

Are you one of the 400 bloggers old Axerod's decided to pay?

If so, aren't you supposed to be makin' nicey, nice with the Clintonistas?  "Cause if so, I'm not feeling the love.


by bellarose on Sat May 17, 2008 at 06:57:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Stop acting like Republicans, (1.60 / 5)

and we'll stop treating you like ones. There's no need to make "nicey" with people who'd never vote for Obama anyway.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sat May 17, 2008 at 07:02:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fogot the link (1.66 / 6)

No one's paying me. I come here for sheer entertainment value. Personally, I would find it condescending if a presidential campaign had to have a stated policy of pandering to my hurt feelings because I wasn't mature enough to accept the simple fact that my candidate was on the wrong side of history (AUMF, Kyl-Lieberman, 'obliterate') and ran a lousy campaign because she placed loyalty over competence (sound like anyone we know?), and lost. And it is over, and she did lose.

But I'm curious: Why do you regard posting TexasDarlin's own words as a hostile act? She's one of the most prominent and active Clinton supporters on one of the most prominent pro-Clinton blogs.

If you find her words offensive (and I'm glad you do), shouldn't you be talking to her? Or maybe the admins here who allow her to come here and to make the rest of you look bad?

Just a thought.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 07:04:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fogot the link (1.50 / 6)

I regard stalking as creepy behavior.  Certainly something an operative would do.

That's all.


by bellarose on Sat May 17, 2008 at 07:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fogot the link (2.00 / 1)

And the ratings abuse continues.

Lovely.


by bellarose on Sat May 17, 2008 at 07:31:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fogot the link (none / 0)

Stalking? Perhaps a bit over the top...?

I'm just giving the readers of this diary, who may not know of SoCalDarlin's history of racism and invective.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 09:23:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fogot the link (none / 0)

Dude, you need to go for a run or a swim or something and stop stalking the diarist.  You'll get thrown off this site for directing angry comments at other users.  Don't you have anything more constructive to do.

Man, maybe they really do pay you guys.

just sayin


by inFlorida on Sat May 17, 2008 at 09:49:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fogot the link (none / 0)

again with the "stalking" nonsense? You guys really do thrive on this pose of victimhood.

As for "angry comments", I just think people should see SoCalDarlin for who she really is. Don't you find the context interesting? Why dodes the truth make you uncomfortable?

As for getting thrown off the site, if Armstrong were consistent, you'd be bounced for abusing the ratings system. Good thing you're on the 'right' side, eh?


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 09:58:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fogot the link (none / 0)

Tolstoy: You gotta check out the guidlines, dood. Facts you don't like aren't troll postings.

Sorry reality hasn't gone your way.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 09:24:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (1.75 / 8)

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/04 29/mystery-man-obama


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:26:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

Great diary!  I predict this one will make the rec list.  


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:23:18 PM EST

Re: Bluegrass Blues (1.20 / 5)

A bit of futile Clinton fawning from SoCalDarlin' make the rec list at MyDD?

Pshaw!


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:44:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (1.92 / 13)

Barack Obama, on the verge of his own premature victory celebration," had time to visit Michigan this week -- a state where he voluntarily removed his name from the ballot for political gain in Iowa

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/relea se/view/?id=3134

then subsequently blocked a re-vote.

Will people who are not from Michigan QUIT pretending they know my state? They decided a revote was impossible because they could not get or verify voter rolls.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:23:25 PM EST

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 4)

sssh with your facts and logic


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:24:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 2)

Facts and logic are for trolls, TROLLS I SAY!!


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:25:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (1.87 / 8)

you're right - we should all listen to terra from michigan, forget what cnn and the detroit free press said about obama campaign chairs hijacking a revote - terra knows better. ;)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:30:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/27 /michigan-january-15-prima_n_93679.html


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 3)

Return to Transcripts main page

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Wal-Mart Speaks Out about Lawsuit against Former Employee; High School Star's Killer was Illegal Alien

Aired March 28, 2008 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Is this your last night here?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: It is, and you'll be happy because I know I made it kind of cold in here.

KING: Boy, did you. Thanks. Carry on.

COOPER: I apologize, Larry. Thanks very much.

Breaking news is how we begin. News that may impact your on the shaky economy. We're just now learning about new White House plans to take action on the shaky economy. We've got a live report on that coming up. Also new calls for Hillary Clinton to quit. Senate colleagues, mostly Obama supporters, we should point out, telling her to end her run for the nomination before she wrecks the Democratic Party. She believes she has the best reason of all to keep going. Will the pressure work? Will it backfire?

What about today's new endorsement for Barack Obama? We'll ask CNN's Candy Crowley and "Time Magazine's" Mark Halperin all about that.

Also tonight, were they racist remarks or just Pennsylvania's outspoken governor telling it like it is? He said Barack Obama may have trouble winning white voters. He stirred up a storm. Tonight, see what he's saying now and why he's not backing down.

And later tonight, outrage at Wal-Mart. Nearly 2 million of you saw our story about the brain damaged woman, a former Wal-Mart employee who is now being sued by Wal-Mart for money she needs for her care. We've been getting e-mails about it around the clock.

Tonight, Wal-Mart addresses the uproar. But I've got to tell you, what they say, just adds insult to injury. CNN's Randi Kaye does the reporting and senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin weighs in on why the biggest retailer on earth is leaning so hard on a poor, disabled woman whose son died serving his country in Iraq.

We begin with the breaking news on the economy. A story that could impact your wallet. A new plan to make sure a melt down of financial markets like we've been seeing doesn't send the economy and the country into a tailspin.

The plan is broad, even sweeping some, say, the White House is expected to unveil it on Monday. We're learning about it right now. CNN's Ali Velshi who has been looking into the details joins us now by phone. Ali, what is the plan?

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on phone): Hey, Anderson, it is a sweeping plan that the White House is working on right now. The government has confirmed to CNN that treasury secretary Henry Paulson on Monday will unveil changes that will basically introduce more regulation into financial markets. That is something that so many people, the candidates on the campaign trail and others have been calling for to say consumers need more protection and investors need more protection.

However, the White House is very clear. The administration is very clear that these are broad plans that could take years to implement. It's not likely to be a short term solution but it is designed to sort of let the public know that the administration is hearing the concerns about how dangerous these markets might be and how big this economic downturn might be and they're saying, let's get involved and let's make sure the government has oversight so that big economic problems don't get out of hand before they know they're going on.

Anderson, this is in response in many cases to criticism about this administration and about how it hasn't been on top of things, it hasn't been ahead of some of the problems we could have maybe foreseen that could have caused this economic downturn. But again, it is sweeping, it may not be fast.

COOPER: Ali, democrats have been calling for greater regulation. How far are we talking about here, in terms of regulating these markets?

VELSHI: Well, we're talking first of all about using the Federal Reserve, which is largely designed to regulate commercial banks. Extending its powers into regulating other parts of the market and trading and things like that. It's a very big deal, and it actually really affects the underpinnings of the way the market system works in the United States. So it's not going to be easy to do it. We'll face a great deal of criticism, but it's a bit of an answer to people who say, are there protections for investors in a world where there are so many things are going on that people don't understand? But it does involve the Federal Reserve in part and that's part of the big deal here. The federal government is saying we will use the Federal Reserve to regulate markets and trading and that's a big deal.

COOPER: All right. Ali Velshi covering the breaking story for us. Thanks very much Ali. We'll check in with you later in this hour if any new developments occur.

Now politics and a lot of new developments. Barack Obama launching a bus tour across Pennsylvania today unleashing a massive ad campaign and bagging the endorsement of one of the Keystone state's key politicians. Also Hillary Clinton busy campaigning but facing new pressure to quit. She says, why should she? After all, she's the favorite to win, Indiana could be promising too. A few more wins, a big stumble from Obama and the superdelegates could flip. That's the Clinton case. But to many outsider her campaign, that looks damaging to the party. John McCain today rolled out his first big national campaign ad and you can bet the Democratic leaders would prefer to be where the Republicans are with the primary fight over. But it's not. And there is no end in sight. Certainly not if you ask Hillary Clinton, we have tonight's "The Raw Politics" from CNN's Jessica Yellin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In case you had any doubt ...

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are some people who are saying, you know, we really ought to end this primary. We just ought to shut it down and ...

CROWD: No!

YELLIN: She's not getting out. Or as the other Clinton puts it.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: Let's just saddle up and have an argument. What's wrong with that?

YELLIN: She won't jump but she sure is being pushed, now more publicly than ever by these Obama supporters. Senator Patrick Leahy thinks Clinton should call it a day.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As long as there are two candidates fighting for the nomination when it's obvious which one is going to win, all that does is to help the other party's nominee.

YELLIN: Senator Chris Dodd tells National Journal radio superdelegates should end the race in May.

SEN. CHRIS DODD, (D) CT: You have to step up to the plate and say enough is enough and we want this to be over with. We want to get behind this candidate. And we want people to pull together to win that election in November.

YELLIN: And Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey, endorsing Obama Friday, struck yet another blow.

SEN. BOB CASEY, (D) PA: We're giving the Republican nominee more time to make the case against our nominee without having enough rebuttal.

YELLIN (on camera): Obama has won more states, more votes and more delegates, and now there's increasing talk that a group of uncommitted superdelegates should decide to back him. Effectively forcing Senator Clinton out of this race and ending the primary.

(voice-over): But Clinton supporters sap the only people calling for an end now are Obama's allies.

JAMES CARVILLE, CLINTON SUPPORT: If they spent more time trying to win some of these primaries as opposed to complaining about having to run it, they'd be better off. And by the way, if Democratic voters want it to end, if they vote for Senator Obama in Pennsylvania they can end it pretty quickly.

YELLIN: And Senator Clinton is using this talk to raise money. In a letter just sent to supporters she wrote, "Those anxious to force us to the sidelines aren't doing it because they think we're going to lose, they know we're in a position to win."

Senator Clinton says she's had comebacks before, and the next one could start with a huge win in Pennsylvania. Jessica Yellin, CNN, Philadelphia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: One other note, at a campaign stop today in Allentown, Pennsylvania, someone asked Chelsea Clinton whether her mother would make a better president than her father was. Here is what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHELSEA CLINTON, YET ANOTHER CLINTON: His question is do I think my mother would be a better president than my father. Well, again, I don't take anything for granted, but hopefully with Pennsylvania's help, she will be our next president, and yes, I do think she'll be a better president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, little interesting moment from the campaign trail. Digging Deeper about all things politics with us tonight, CNN's Candy Crowley and "Time" magazine's Mike Halperin who puts the whole, Clinton should quit story this way in a piece he cowrote titled "Still in it to Win It." "When Clinton closes her eyes she sees John McCain triumphing in a contest she believes she would win."

Says a lot. Candy, today Bill Clinton aid the idea that this is splintering the party is "a bunch of bull." Is the party really in peril if Clinton stays in They're dominating the media coverage, they are flush with cash and people are paying attention to both these candidates. Isn't there some advantage to having this continue?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't know if there's an advantage to it but I don't think there's any harm to it. There is still plenty of time for the party to come together. We talked about this a little last night. I think that people now are sort of looking and I think they're a little prematurely frightened at this point. I also think that the Obama camp has to be pretty careful here, because Hillary Clinton has shown in New Hampshire when it looked like she was down and out, people came out, particularly women came out to support her. When she said she didn't have enough money left, she began to collect a lot of money. When she is down, people tend -- her supporters tend to really come out and get behind her. So I think the Obama camp has to be really careful this doesn't come back at them.

COOPER: Mark, political analyst Chuck Todd believes that calls for her to drop out are premature. He wrote this. He said, "Her presence at worse is making Obama a better candidate. The Wright flare-up was the first true political crisis of Obama's national political career which is remarkable given how close he is to being the Democratic nominee. Who knows when the Wright controversy would have circulated had the nomination been locked up."

It's an interesting point that this is actually making both of these candidates better.

MARK HALPERIN, "TIME MAGAZINE": Anderson, first of all I appreciate you reading some of my stuff, although originally it was written in iambic pentameter and you didn't read it that way so ...

COOPER: I wasn't very good at tenth grade English.

HALPERIN: Right now she's testing him. Clearly the Obama campaign doesn't consider her to be no threat all because they're going after her every day. On the other hand, I think it'd be better for Barack Obama, the sooner this race ends. I agree with Candy, whenever it ends, Hillary Clinton will endorse Obama whole heartedly, even if not fully meaning it, she'll put her two fingers behind her back crossed. She'll endorse him. I think the party will come together. I don't think that's the issue. But I do think the day she gets out he can start worrying about the general election.

I've been asking his advisers the last few days, have you thought about the convention, have you thought about a debate strategy, have you thought about where McCain is vulnerable, and their answers are awfully tentative and awfully unwell formed because they've got to focus on winning this nomination still and I think they'd be better off thinking like John McCain, thinking about running mate, debates, general election strategy, taking over the national party.

COOPER: Candy, people keep talking about Democratic party elders, you know, talking to the Clintons at some point, if it comes to that and saying, look, it's over, it's time to step down. Who can actually do that? Is there someone who would actually do that?

CROWLEY: I don't know who that could be. I can't see Al Gore, for instance, who's now considered one of the party elders going to Hillary Clinton and saying, look, I think you ought to get out. I mean, that makes no sense to me. Ted Kennedy, a party elder, he supports Barack Obama. He's going to go to Hillary Clinton and say, you know, I think you ought to get out. I don't think it will come that way.

We're going to see pressure. There's certainly pressure, but I think the only person who could pressure a Clinton is another Clinton. They'll know if it becomes time to get out, I think she'll get out. Just that time is not now.

COOPER: And, Mark, how does this play out? You talked to the Obama people. You know, publicly they seem to be addressing McCain as the candidate. They seem not to talk about Senator Clinton very much, although the candidate doesn't talk about Senator Clinton very much on the trail, but you're saying behind the scenes there's not an extensive planning for a battle against McCain at this point. HALPERIN: They just can't afford to do it. They've got to win this nomination. Look, I think there is four moments where she might get out of this race, assuming she's not the nominee and right now it doesn't look like she has much of a chance. One is if she loses Pennsylvania, I think she'll get out. The second is shortly thereafter. If she doesn't win both Indiana and North Carolina, I think there's a chance she'll get out. Then there comes the end of the voting in early June. If after that, if she's not much closer in elected delegates, I think there will be extraordinary pressure to get out. Finally it could go to the convention. We can talk a lot between now and then about Democratic elders and people who support her telling her to get out. But until she gets to each of those tollbooths, sees the outcome, and assesses her prospects, she's going forward.

COOPER: I don't get this term "Democratic elders." It's like something from "The Lord of Rings" like they're all hanging out at Stonehenge and they need to be consulted late at night or something.

We'll hear more from Mark and Candy coming up. If you'd like to join in our conversation I'm online during tonight's program as always. So are a lot of our viewers. Just go to cnn.com/360. The conversation's already pretty heated up there. Up next, Pennsylvania's Governor Ed Rendell, a big Clinton supporter who's known from shooting from the hip, or perhaps the lip, he said Barack Obama might have a white voter problem in Pennsylvania. Is he stepping back from those remarks? You'll see what he says.

And later, Wal-Mart, trying to explain why it's forcing a brain damaged ex employee to pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars. The money she desperately needs to live on. Randi Kaye has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think Wal-Mart should make an exception for your family?

Who needs the money more? A disabled lady in a wheelchair with no future whatsoever, does she need it, or does Wal-Mart need $90 billion plus $200,000?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ED RENDELL, (D) PA: It wasn't intended to be racial. Anybody who knows my record as governor knows I've been probably the most inclusive governor we've ever had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell explaining some of the controversial remarks she made about Barack Obama. Critics have since been calling his words everything from politically motivated to racist, some people have said. The governor isn't quite backing down. 360's Randi Kaye met with him in Philadelphia.

Tonight she's up close with Governor Ed Rendell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's blunt, brutally honest.

RENDELL: People know I don't B.S. them.

KAYE: And hardly bashful regarding his recent comments about Barack Obama.

RENDELL: The next president of the United States, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

KAYE: In a meeting with the "Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's" editorial board last month, Pennsylvania's Governor Ed Rendell who has endorsed Hillary Clinton says, "You've got conservative whites here, and I think there are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African American candidate." Yes, he went there.

RENDELL: I wasn't trying to influence the campaign, I was in a room with six guys -- I don't think it even had any windows and they asked me to handicap the race.

KAYE (on camera): The governor's remarks sent a chill through Pennsylvania's African American community. Here in Philadelphia, the head of the NAACP called it callous and insensitive. Others suggested it was politically motivated, even racist.

RENDELL: It wasn't intended to be racial.

KAYE: You don't regret your comments at all about Barack Obama and white voters.

RENDELL: Do I think there was anything wrong with it? Absolutely not. I told the truth, and we've got to be able to speak the truth about race without someone pointing their finger and saying, you're racist.

KAYE: Rendell calls Obama a formidable candidate who has done a great job of putting the race issue behind him. He blames the issues for, his words here, "obsessing about this stuff."

Just five days after the "Post Gazette" published Rendell's comments it printed a follow up article that seems to defend Rendell.

"Mr. Rendell didn't dump or strategically plant his opinion about race in our paper on behalf of the Clinton campaign. He appeared passive but not indifferent to or malicious about our state's backwardness."

Barack Obama agreed with the governor saying, "I think there will be people who don't vote for me because of race. There will be people who don't vote for me because I got big ears." But Obama didn't let Rendell off the hook. He also said, "Governor Rendell is a savvy politician, and I think he wants to project strength for Senator Clinton." This is not the first time Governor Rendell injected race into a race. When he ran for governor in 2006, his opponent was former TV host Lynn Swann, an African American. After his victory, Rendell said he believed the margin would have been closer, had Swann been white. Swann told us he thought Rendell's most recent comments about Obama were a subtle form of racism. If Clinton doesn't win the nomination, Rendell says he will support Obama. He's given him his word.

RENDELL: I had a call from Senator Obama and he said, you know I'm going to be the nominee, and I didn't argue with him, I said, sure, and he said I just want to make sure nothing happens in Pennsylvania, the campaign here, that will make it harder for us to win in the fall. And I said, senator, don't even worry about that for five seconds.

KAYE: That phone call may be the only thing to get Governor Ed Rendell to watch his tongue. Randi Kaye, CNN, Philadelphia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Digging deeper, CNN senior political correspondent Candy Crowley and "Time Magazine's" Mark Halperin. Mark, Obama is on this bus tour in Pennsylvania. Clinton's going to go on her own bus tour through Pennsylvania next week. How far apart are they in the polls?

HALPERIN: Probable about low double digits. Clinton has had a stable lead there. Look, Obama's done incredibly well in this contest, he's the heavy favorite at this point. But there is this nagging pair of questions, which will be on display in Pennsylvania. Why isn't he beating her in these big states when he's spending more money, spending a lot of time? I ask his aides all the time, why don't you win these big states? And the second is, something I bring up with you all the time Anderson because you can only bring it up in non-polite company, which is how I consider you, if she's got one argument, if Clinton's got one argument she can make to these super delegates, it's about electability and the question is, why isn't Barack Obama doing well enough to win white votes, which I said before, that is the biggest challenge for any Democrat getting elected president. Winning white votes. Any Democratic, and Obama has the same burden all Democrats do, prove that he can do it.

COOPER: So, Candy, is there a concerted effort, is there a strategy in the Obama camp to try to do just that?

CROWLEY: Well, I mean, that's part of why the economic message is being taken through Pennsylvania. It's certainly not rocket science. He's on that bus, he is talking economics, that is the big, working class issue, white or black. But that is the working class issue there and that's where he's reaching out. It is not so much just the white vote, it is the white working class vote. That's where he's had the most problem. And she -- it's really where she shines the most, when she has those sort of smaller, economic town hall meetings, she's -- you know, has all of these facts at her fingertips. She tends to relate to whatever the problem is. He's beginning to do more of that, but it is a focus on the economy. Because that's where the working class vote is right now.

COOPER: So, Mark, people say she needs a big win. Is a win a win no matter what for Senator Clinton, or does she need some sort of trouncing of Obama in order for those calls to quit?

HALPERIN: Well, look, the calls for Clinton to quit will come no matter what happens in Pennsylvania. But they're coming, Senator Clinton will tell you accurately, from Obama supporters, journalists and some neutral people. They're not coming from her tens of millions of supporters. So I suspect, if you look at the public opinion polling, she's usually above 50 percent in this state which is a pretty good sign in a two person race. I suspect she'll win Pennsylvania whether it's by a little bit or a lot, enough to silence people. But, make no mistake. Unless she blows it out 60-40, she won't really dig into his delegate lead, his elected delegate lead. That will lead people to say, once again, a big state has voted, Hillary Clinton may have won, but if Barack Obama is going to be the delegate leader, that's one state down, nine more contests to go and she won't have dug into that.

And again, that will call for more -- that will bring more people to call for her to get out of the race.

COOPER: It's interesting, Candy. I hear a lot of people saying on the Clinton side saying the media wants this to end. I don't know anyone in the media -- This is the best thing to happen to cable news, certainly the longest time.

CROWLEY: Absolutely. I mean, look. I think it's the story right now. And it always seems when the media's reporting it that the media is pushing for it. But clearly there are people out there both behind the scenes and in front of the scenes as we saw from Senator Leahy today that are pushing her. That has been the story for most of the week. But the story changes. I don't think the media is pushing it so much as the media kind of mulling it over as we tend to do day after day.

HALPERIN: I disagree.

COOPER: Really? OK. Go ahead.

HALPERIN: I think if you look at reporters and their questions, not every reporter, but some reporters have written explicitly, some opinion columnists have written explicitly that she should get out of the race. She has asked now every day. Anytime anybody suggests it, it gets big headlines. I think we're of two minds. We like this story. Bigger than O.J. and Anna Nicole combined for people like you. But people more often are trying to drive her from the race. It's not really an anti-Clinton thing, although there's a lot of that. It's really reporters always want to drive people who lose out of the race. It's what we do. It happened to every candidate who is already out of this race. The minute there's blood in the water, the question they're asked over and over is, when are you getting out of the race, why aren't you getting out of the race, shouldn't you get out of the race, so and so says you should get out?

COOPER: Two things, one, I actually didn't cover Anna Nicole very much and not really O.J. very much, but I'm not going to argue that point. But the term, the media, it such a different term to use because frankly is everything from cable news to people write op-ed columns who clearly have opinions to people that do talk radio, to bloggers. So it's a ridiculous term, just an easy label to throw around, I guess. We've got to leave it there. Candy, appreciate it. Mark Halperin as well. Thanks very much.

Up next, the raw politics behind the Michigan re-vote. Did Barack Obama use his influence to keep voters from going back to the polls? Some in the Clinton campaign certain say they did. We'll check the facts. Also ahead, Wal-Mart trying to collect money from a former disabled employee. This story is unbelievable. The outrage on its grown. What they're doing is totally legal but almost 2 million of you have seen this story now, hundreds have written into our blog saying it is simply wrong. When you hear what Wal-Mart has it to say about it, well, judge for yourself when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Democratic candidates may be focused on next month's Pennsylvania primary, but they haven't forgotten about Florida and Michigan. State leaders, especially Clinton supporters, are struggling to find a way to have their delegates seated at the Democratic National Convention. Right now they're being blocked because the states held their primaries earlier than allowed by the national party rules. You all know this. But not every Democrat is pushing for a re-vote. Gary Tuchman takes a look at the "Raw Politics" going on behind the scenes in Michigan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: Count my vote!

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's the year 2000. Democrats are angry. They want a recount in the presidential election. Which they don't get. Fast forward to the present. Instead of a recount, many Democrats want a redo. But this time around, many other Democrats redon't.

BUZZ THOMAS, MICHIGAN STATE SENATOR: I believe the redo effort is dead.

TUCHMAN: Michigan State Senator Buzz Thomas is a co-chair of Barack Obama's Michigan campaign and just led an apparently successful effort to kill legislation to authorize a revote.

THOMAS: I don't believe it's appropriate to change state law at the last moment and insist on a quick fix to a very, very serious question.

JIM BLANCHARD, FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: I believe that they feel they're ahead and they don't want to have any more losses with big states. TUCHMAN: Former Michigan Governor Jim Blanchard is Hillary Clinton's Michigan campaign co-chairman. He and his candidate want this redo.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to either count the votes that have already been cast in Michigan and Florida or have new full and fair elections.

TUCHMAN: Barack Obama has shown no similar enthusiasm.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) IL: What we believe is that there should be some way of arriving at a fair settlement that respects the fact that there were rules in place.

TUCHMAN: That fair settlement, says Senator Thomas and his co- chairman, State Senator Tupac Hunter is to split the delegates.

(on camera): If Barack Obama were leading this state but not leading in the country like he is now, would you have been more aggressive to get a redo election here than you have been now?

TUPAC HUNTER, MICHIGAN STATE SENATOR: No. If I was presented with the same redo situation, no. No. I would have explained to the candidate that I supported, I understand your agenda may be X, but as a legislator I'm expected to make sound policy decisions.

TUCHMAN: So you're not trying to help Obama?

HUNTER: It has nothing to do with that.

TUCHMAN: The two Obama chairman say they're troubled by potential legal issues, private funding for a redo you and the burden on county election clerks. They say so many senators agreed it never came to a vote. Dawson Bell is a state capital reporter for the "Detroit Free Press."

DAWSON BELL, "DETROIT FREE PRESS": While there were some pretextual reasons for objecting to a do over election that the principle one was they determined it wouldn't be advantageous to their candidate.

TUCHMAN: Barack Obama?

BELL: Barack Obama.

TUCHMAN: Nobody knows what will happen with Michigan's delegates. Many voters throughout the state are confused and incredulous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michigan screwed up the whole thing.

TUCHMAN (on camera): So nearly eight years after Bush versus Gore the issue of votes not counting is in the headlines once again. But this time the Democrats don't into evidence the republicans as their tormenters. They've got themselves.

BLANCHARD: I'm disappointed in the party leaders in Washington, disappointed in the tactics in this case of the Obama advisers.

THOMAS: I'm sleeping well at night knowing we made the right decision, and luckily, you know, I guess it's good to be in the lead.

TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN, Lansing, Michigan.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0 803/28/acd.01.html

emphasis mine.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:17:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 3)

damn all - sorry for the long post - it was just meant to include the last part.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:18:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (1.33 / 3)

You realize you're posting this in a diary about Appalachia written by someone from Southern California who pretends to be a Texan, don't you?

It's getting kinda po-mo around here.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:45:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um.... SoCalDarlin..... (1.00 / 2)

How do you justify that donut, you've admittted you're "Texas" identity is a fraud. You post that hateful, racist filth on your own blog.

Not my fault if you're embarrassed by you're own rantings. You should be. But why do you keep posting this crazed, angry nonsense? Get a grip.

Maybe if you can't control your rage and racial resentments, you should take a break from blogging.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 09:34:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 2)

Who knows where whom is from around here?   That includes you, btw.


by bellarose on Sat May 17, 2008 at 07:00:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

The very BEST one could say is that the Obama supporters decided that it was not possible.  The Hillary supporters and the Republicans thought it was possible and the Obama supporters wouldnt let it come to a vote.

And, as a result, every poll has Hillary defeating McCain but has McCain defeating Obama, suggesting that YOUR state sees like the author --- that Obama is a very cagey, old fashioned power polititian who doesn't think anything is fair if it doesn't make him win.


by mdFriendofHillary on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:16:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 3)

It's a shame hillarys win in Kentucky will be overshadowed by Obamas Oregon win and his announcement that he will now have enough Pledged delegates to declare the race over.


by venician on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:25:54 PM EST

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 5)

not enough pledged delegates are in play for either to win, so either is free to take it to the convention.  You may think he's won it, but it doesn't look like that from my perspective.

Since you think it's over, but the super's haven't already rushed en masse to Barack, giving him a certain victory, what do you think they're waiting for? Many who haven't endorsed are in congress, and they want to win their seats back.  Many of their small town constituents voted for Hillary and poll far less favorably for Barack. Are super's supposed to turn against their own voters to go for a guy who is less prepared, and has a reduced chance of winning the GE?  Well, it's rhetorical, we'll all see soon enough.  How long until Denver?  

With super's the real Dem voters have an advantage over pug districts that may have favored Barack, since congressional super's were elected by Democrats and they represent Democrats, not indies or left-leaning libertarians, or spoiler or mind changing pugs.  She's also got the Reagan Dem's back with her, that's a big loss for him, he praised Reagan and wrongly predicted they'd go with him in a landslide that would give him a mandate. He's already been proven wrong, how much wronger does he need to prove himself to be?  

He can pretend the swing states don't matter, but we have congresspersons elected from swing states who think they do matter.  And those congresspersons are often also super delegate.  

__


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:34:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

You just posted this exact comment in another diary. It made no sense there and it makes no sense here.


by venician on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 5)

it's not the same comment, but it is the same message.  Super's have not gone en masse to Barack. Many face reelectiion in districts that went for her.  Many are watching what will happen with his momentum, if he keeps losing momentum while she gains, they'll decide on the factor that they're all supposed to, which has the best chance of winning the GE. They get to think, and if they were in the same group think as others, it would be over.  Since it isn't, something is wrong with your math. Do you have an answer to the question what are they waiting for?  Let's hear it, share?  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:46:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

They're not waiting.  "En masse" or 5 at a time, he's still getting them, and she isn't.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:49:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Game over (2.00 / 1)

You can't lose eleven states in a row by an average of more than 30% and expect to win.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sat May 17, 2008 at 11:57:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 2)

It's a slow motion landslide, with some pretty major movements from time to time, like the 13 delegates Obama gained on Thursday.

Lots of superdelegates are waiting until Obama clinches and others for when the primaries are done. This is prevent the sort of backlash from Clinton supporters that is fanned here every day.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:49:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

How many S.D.s did hillary get this week??
How many did she get last week??
You can't really be this delusional, can you?
by venician on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:53:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

They are trying not to piss people off like you and the process play itself out....


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:03:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 3)

that's good, at least it's an explanation. It sure would piss me off if Barack claims his victory before she concedes and the other way around were she to do it before he conceded.  But many have endorsed, and I'll still be pissed off if she wins huge in Kentucky and cuts deeply into his demographic in Oregon and if she's far ahead in the popular vote and continues to poll far better against McCain than Barack and the rest say, we'll, we've let her supporters go all the way and now we'll overturn the popular vote in favor of the lead in pledged delegates.  So, don't see that your argument would win them much. It's their own constituents they'll have to answer to, and to the entire party should he be nominated through insider deal making but go on to lose. We've had two Baracks lose already, Gore and Kerry also lost.  And to the real Bush, not new bush the maverick who's against global warming.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:10:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

Remember, she's behind in the popular votes. She's also behind in delegates, as she's been since Iowa. The superdelegates don't have a responsibility to give the nomination to candidates named Clinton; they can choose however they wish to choose, and since spring, they've overwhelmingly chosen Obama.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:13:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

I've posted this elsewhere concerning popular vote, but could comment on my way of thinking..

Wouldn't Obama have had a different campaign strategy if he knew that the so-called popular vote was the deciding factor??

People who argue this kind of remind me of when I play Candyland with my four year old, after I almost reach the top he makes a rule up in moves ahead of me...huh...maybe my boy should run for the Democrat nomination when he's old enough...He knows the "rules"...


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:23:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

But many have endorsed, and I'll still be pissed off

One more question, would you still be "pissed off" if the many that "have endorsed" would have endorsed HRC before the contest is over??  I'm assuming, based on your statement, that you are "pissed off" about the 273 Superdelegates that have endorsed her before the primary is over...


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:27:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not up to Clinton (2.00 / 2)

"It sure would piss me off if Barack claims his victory before she concedes"......

Sorry to break it to you, but Hillary Clinton is not the center of the universe. Her concession is NOT the metric by which Obama will obtain victory. The metric - as set by the DNC - is the candidate who reaches the number 2025 by any combination of delegates and superdelegates.

Once Barack reaches 2025 - which he will likely do on Tuesday night - he will be victorious - no matter if Hillary officially concedes or not.

Get over it.


by Deano963 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:43:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not up to Clinton (2.00 / 1)

She said it was, and her supporters cheered.

"It's not over until the lady in the pantsuit says it is!"

I almost fell out of my chair. It was pretty revealing though.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:47:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not up to Clinton (none / 0)

I think when Obama reaches the majority of pledged delegates on Tuesday night, he should ask the superdelegates to hold off their endorsements for 36 hours, and offer Hillary Clinton to exit on her own terms, or at least allow her to pledge not to fight for full seating of the FL/MI delegations.  If she refuses to concede, and vows to fight for the full seating of the MI/FL delegations at that time, then the superdelegates should endorse, and end the race.


by Brad G on Sat May 17, 2008 at 06:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm ... (none / 0)

And if the superdelegates did go en masse to Obama (He's picked up over 20 since May 6), you'd be whining that those big, bully men are forcing a poor woman out of the race.  Barack Obama can't win either way with you.

In a best of seven game series, if a team wins two games out of six, they don't have to concede, and can argue for a seventh game.  That only makes them look like a sore loser.


by Brad G on Sat May 17, 2008 at 06:07:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

I don't think you know what "Reagan Dems" are.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 2)

party members who vote Dem locally and pug for prez.  Reagan got them first, and Hillary is the first of our nom's who's shown she's got them back.  Barack early claimed he'd get them, but he wasn't just wrong about himself, he was wrong that no dem but him could win them over, she has.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:47:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

Do you have any evidence for that claim?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:50:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 3)

you don't remember? he was going to win a mandate, like Reagan he was going to unite dem's, indies and some pugs and bring back the reagan dems. Then he'd rule bottom up, with the people giving him their demands and him carrying them out. Plenty of good ideas, he said, just need the will of the people to carry them out. It's been a while since he's made that claim, but not that long ago.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:55:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

Why are you abusing the ratings system in many diaries??


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

I think she means evidence that Hillary is getting "party members who vote Dem locally and pug for prez".

There is none.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:00:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

Yep, that's what I was saying.  Thanks.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:05:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

They're ethnic blue-collar white people.  It's a demographic category, and every year someone gets them in the primary.

They don't exit poll for what you're talking about.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:52:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

that's what Indiana showed, and even more West Virginia. they like her pluck, and her ability to keep going and fight for what she believes in.  Her husband didn't get them, Gore didn't, Kerry didn't, Barack doesn't and she does. turns out she's the uniter. Look, if you're right he should do well in Kentucky, since according to you it's over and so all dem's will now unite around him, no? And according to you it will have to be a blow out for him in Oregon, because that is his demographic, upper income white liberals, all African Americans and younger voters. But, if he doesn't, then I'm right.  A little patience before you start celebrating?  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:01:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

So only rich white young people and African Amerians live in Oregon?....huh...I thought the AA population was around 3-4% who knew??  I'm in awe of how you present so many facts...


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:06:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 2)

that's his base. There aren't many African Americans in Oregon in percentages, but he has always been able to count on his demographic, but you got a 'gottcha' on me, charming, but I didn't claim percentages you noticed something and jumped on it, clever.  But, and here's the rub, he lost that demographic in West Virginia, not the African American voters, but the young ones and the rich ones and the highly educated ones, they went for her. So, have they come to appreciate her more in Oregon too? Don't know, but we'll find out.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:15:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 2)

Can you tell us in advance why Oregon won't count if Obama wins it?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:16:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

you're being funny?  Oregon counts, he supposed to win it huge, it's Barack country, or so it's said. But if he wins it small and she wins Kentucky big and she's cut into some of his core supporters, it'll be cause for thinking?  All the states count for us, it's you guys who think some don't.  We do 'weigh' them by whether they'll help in the GE or not, that's the electoral college map that is so important to winning in November, but all the votes count. all of them.  The only time individual democrats have a say in anything is in the primaries.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:24:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

If all states count to you, why do you discount the caucuses Obama won?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:31:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

I didn't?  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:42:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

So the votes (and by extension, delegates) in states Obama wins are worth just as much (no more, no less) than those in states Clinton wins?

I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

Cause for thinking what? If things play out as they're projected to, he'll be the nominee. If she somehow reverses all trends and doesn't lose as badly where she's expected to lose, plus wins even bigger in the areas she's expected to win, he's still the nominee. All states count and there's only a tiny fraction of the total left. She's going to finish second place, she's wrapping it up as we speak grabbing last minute donations to pay off her debt, the supers have gone for Obama 10 to 1, and both she and Obama are unified against the Republicans.  

Oh who am I fooling, you took susanhu's pathetic joke on No Quarter seriously and started parroting it like it was the gospel truth. You've got your own little world you're living in.


by upstate girl on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:32:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

If all the states count, then how can you not count vote estimates from the caucus states in your "popular vote" count?


We shall overcome. Yes we can.
by Sam Wise Gingy on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:40:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

they're not certified votes?  Some caucus states certify their votes, and some don't?  I do have a problem with the caucuses and I hope they get retired, I believe in a secret ballot, and in giving all citizens equal access to voting.  But that's not the point, the point is state party gets to decide, and some don't certify, don't even count them, only count the delegates.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:46:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

So voters in caucus states don't count becaucse they don't cast "ceritified votes."

That's nuts.

Participants in caucuses are as important to the Democratic party and our selection process as anyone, except to you Clinton supporters.

If you can't win without cheating, quit.


We shall overcome. Yes we can.
by Sam Wise Gingy on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:55:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it's blatant special pleading (2.00 / 1)

the only reason "certified votes" is the talking point is because the MI and FL were state-run primaries and therefore certified.  The Calvinball on MI and FL is as transparent as it is ridiculous.


by JJE on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:12:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

IN? The margin was less than 1% for Clinton, not exactly a stunning victory except for Operation Chaos.

And, now no one expects people in KY to flock to Obama now. No one. Nor did anyone ever.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:07:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

ah, but that was supposed to be his, and by a margin of 7 percent. She squeaked a win.   that was amazing, and coupled with his humiliating defeat in West Virginia it changed the lay of the land. Now we have to see if he continues to slip.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:17:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No: most of the pre-primary polls (none / 0)

showed Hillary in the lead.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/03 /indiana-primary-polls-lat_n_94950.html


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No: most of the pre-primary polls (none / 0)

not by his count, although she was catching up in the polls.  he'd been way up a few weeks earlier, that;s part of the argument that he's lost his momentum.  Worked against her in the same way in New Hampshire, that she barely squeaked a win in, so much did she lose her earlier polling lead.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:48:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No: most of the pre-primary polls (none / 0)

Nonsense. He was never up by more than five points in IN, and she was ahead of him for most of 2008.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:51:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did you even read the link? (none / 0)

There were tons of polls, the majority of which showed a sizeable Clinton lead.  It's a base falsehood (though a common Clinton meme) that Obama was "expected" to win Indiana.  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:58:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

they only adopted that meme (1.50 / 2)

after she barely won.  Leading up to it, it was all "woo-hoo, she's gonna win IN big!  that's our girl!"  McCauliffe was a grinning idiot the morning of the primary.  That's why that night was so crushing for them.  The IN squeaker, coupled with a smashing in NC, demonstrated that Obama wasn't tanking and that his support is resilient, which was their last realistic hope.


by JJE on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Again with the TR abuse n/t (none / 0)


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Sat May 17, 2008 at 06:12:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (none / 0)

his "humiliating" loss in West Virginia that was followed by the Edwards endorsement Clinton wanted so desperately and a dozen or so superdelegates announcing for Obama?

Obama won Virginia, Maryland, Kansas, and Hillary's homestate of Illinois by similar margins.

Were those "humiliating" losses?

I know what they weren't: Pyrrhic victories.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:50:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bluegrass Blues (2.00 / 1)

No one ever said math was a prerequisite to blog, but I'm sure you can read.

Hillary won 51 percent, Obama recevied 49 percent.

That means Hillary won by 2 percent.

the vote difference is over 14,000 votes.

AND....Obama had projected Indiana to be his win. LOL

I'd say that was a VERY good win for Hillary.


by LindaSFNM on Sat May 17, 2008 at 06:04:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]